Now, heresy, the last one from the ten non-virtues, heresy,here, the heresy is this, that there is no karma, there is no such thing as the four noble truths, true path and cessation of suffering you see however no karma and no reincarnation, these things. So, is there any other religions that which believing in these things becomes heresy, you see karma, reincarnation, Triple Gem, that it becomes heresy in other view? Is there? In other view, that it become heresy? In other view, in other faith that it become heresy?
Students: Yes [rest unintelligible]
Rinpoche: In Catholicism? Protestant? What about the, there is a word in the Bible, this resurrection, something, what about that? That they accept?
Students: [Unintelligible: someone says that somewhere in the Bible the concept of reincarnation is accepted.]
Rinpoche: You mean in old texts it's mentioned, reincarnation. Which context it talks about, but you mean in Catholicism it doesn't accept reincarnation? But what about Catholic don't they accept heaven and hell? So isn't that reincarnating?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: Returning back to this earth? That's not necessary, no reincarnation, not necessary it has to be that. Reincarnation? Which reincarnation are you talking about?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: No, here, now we are not talking about that particular reincarnation, you see somebody who, by having accumulated extensive merit through practice you see through pure morality then to reincarnate in this world as a human being. We are not talking that particular, due to prayers reincarnating, not due to karma but, so we're not talking those particular reincarnations, just general, ordinary reincarnation. So in Catholics it is accepted heaven and hell.
Student: [Something about that not being called reincarnation. There is no taking of another body; in the Catholic church, it is the soul that goes to heaven.]
Rinpoche: But, alle, I see, so in the Catholic, doesn't it talk about the hell beings have bodies? Who is suffering is just soul or, so there's no body? Correct? So there's no body in heaven and hell, there is a lot of space there, we can go there for vacation - I'm joking! We can go there for camping. Three months camping. Or retreat. If there is no body you see there are drawings of hell beings. If there is no body, it it's like formless realm, you cannot draw, formless realms that doesn't have forms, in the Wheel of Life there's no drawing of form, physical body, it's formless you know. So, since there is drawing of body, hell and heaven beings then there should be body. Otherwise how can you draw a shape? You can't give a shape.
So anyway, I think if you debate, no, no, in the meaning it's talking about reincarnation, the hell and heaven, it's just a question of label. But on the other hand talking about reincarnation, but you just don't label. So, same thing, it is not called karma, the title karma is not given in Christianity you see the title karma is not given but there is the subject about ten virtues and ten non-virtues, even though, each one, whether the explanation is exactly the same or not, however generally they are the same you know there's some similarity. So that is talk about karma, that is subject of karma, even though it is not labeled karma. [long pause]
So you mean in Catholic, reincarnation is regarded as heresy, did you say? So, is that a conventional truth or not? That heresy, the two truths, absolute truth, conventional truth. Is there any, now here the definition of heresy here, that in the teaching of the Buddha, here that believing that there is no reincarnation, no karma, no four noble truths, these things, no true path, no cessation of suffering, and so forth, so my question is, in another faith is there any, can that become heresy? Having faith in these things?
Student: [unintelligible] (Yes, in Christianity is heresy to talk about reincarnation, there is only one life and one God who decides upon that one life. There is no independent soul.)
Rinpoche: God decided one life, yeah? They say like that? God didn't make heaven and hell?
[tape change]
Student: (The answer is that yes, he is almighty and he decides who should go where.)
Rinpoche: He decides? God decides the soul where to go? And that depends on?
Student: (Good luck/life.)
Rinpoche: Yes, I'm expecting that, that's what I expected. So in Christianity, even though God is used as kind of means, but actually again it comes to the point, oneself, you know same as in Buddhism that, oneself is the guide, oneself is the enemy to oneself and oneself is the guide, God is used as a kind of, between that, God is used, when it comes down, it comes down to you you are the creator you see the way the evolution of the talk, it shows that you are the creator you see when the evolution of the talk, the explanation comes down you see so God is not the main one, even though in the words it says that God is the creator but actually you are the creator, because it's up to you, because what God does is up to you, so it's like - good heresy or bad one? Best quality? What were we talking before? I forgot.
Yeah, so the evolution of the talk when it, if you think well, the evolution of the talk, the God doesn't become the main thing. God is, what God's creation is seems up to you, depend on how you live the life, whether you you see if you have faith to God then you go to heaven, if you don't have faith to God then you go, if you live evil life, the ten non-virtues, those things, hell, like that. So you see it comes down to that you are the creator, God is not the main thing you see become very clear. But you see now if one live bad life, evil life, even one live, even one doesn't have faith to God you see without depending on how you live the life, anyway, God takes you to heaven or anyway God takes you to hell. Something like this, then this way doesn't depend to you, it's God, God becomes the creator, this way. But if it's dependent to you, how you live the life you know depending how you do, then second one comes God, then you are the creator.
So my question is that, so reincarnation is heresy in other faiths? For example, I think one Hindu religion, ?Jampemba, this I don't know, Sangkya religion, this religion in regards the view is the lowest. There is a Hindu religion that talks also karma you know talks about reincarnation, but this Jampemba, Sangkya, this one doesn't accept reincarnation, the one life. So however whether it is Catholic or whatever it is, the reincarnation if this is heresy, does this heresy exist or not? Is this heresy true?
Student: [unintelligible]
Rinpoche: But this is true in their view, non-existence of reincarnation is true in their view, is true according to their mind.
Student: [unintelligible]
Rinpoche: So who believes that there is no reincarnation, understand? And the faith in reincarnation is heresy because of that. So, isn't that true for their mind? So it's true for their mind, yeah? So, that heresy exists.
Student: I think heresy does not exist, but there are heretics.
Rinpoche: Heretics. So you mean the person exists?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: The person's faith exists, the person's faith that that is wrong, heresy exists, no? So the person exists but the person's view doesn't exist?
My question is this, I'm not saying whether the view, that philosophy you see whether such a philosophy exists or not, the philosophy exists, right? Philosophy exists, faith exists, that faith that the concept of existing reincarnation is heresy. That faith, that believing the concept that existing the reincarnation is heresy, that faith exists. So now, my question is that, that thought, the concept that there is reincarnation, according to the other view, other philosophy, the concept of the existence of reincarnation you see it is heresy according to those faiths, according to those peoples' minds, that is heresy, So, is that true or not? That heresy, is it true or not? I think that's the question.
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: So, which is heresy, the faith that there is no reincarnation, karma, these things you see four noble truths so forth, this and in other faith that there is no reincarnation you see karma and so forth, and believing that they exist is the heresy? So, which one is true? Both are heresies or not? So question is you see whether both are heresy or not?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: Both are heretics? So both are true? So that means that reincarnation doesn't exist and exists. So, some people's minds, reincarnation exists; in some peoples' minds, reincarnation doesn't exist. Like that?
Okay, now. Somebody came to find Jean Luc here, at Maitreya Centre okay. So, some people, Jean Luc is here but you see some people did not find Jean Luc. Jean Luc's friends sees always Jean Luc, but the other people who came to look for Jean Luc at Maitreya Institute, they didn't see Jean Luc. So, Jean Luc is at Maitreya Centre, so for those people, for Jean Luc's friends, Jean Luc is at Maitreya Centre, but Jean Luc is not at the Maitreya Centre for the people who do not see Jean Luc here right? Like that? Jean Luc exists for the friends who see Jean Luc but Jean Luc doesn't exist for the people who came here to look for Jean Luc but who could not find, so Jean Luc doesn't exist for them, right? So as they believe Jean Luc is not here, it is true. So let's say you went pipi in bathroom, something like that for example, anyway, some corner anyway, so people could not find, anyway you are somewhere, under the bushes or something, those people, so other people they could not find you, then they believe, they go away, Oh, Jean Luc is not there at Maitreya Institute. I went there, I went in Holland, Maitreya Institute but I could not find Jean Luc. So, these people you see they believe that Jean Luc is not here and they left. So Jean Luc is not at Maitreya Institute, right? Because this group of people did not find you. Huh?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: No, no, no. These people, okay we're talking on this basis these people know you, okay. No he wants clarification, so you see these people also know you, right? They know how you look, how Jean Luc appears, okay. So these people look around and they could not find then they believe Jean Luc is not here you see they leave. So Jean Luc is not here at Maitreya Institute. Is Jean Luc at Maitreya Institute or not? Where are you? Where is Jean Luc now?
Student: [Unintelligible]
Rinpoche: So again, same. So another example, so within you there's one who thinks that Jean Luc - now we give up those outside people examples you know now within Jean Luc there are two concepts. One is, Jean Luc doesn't exist; one is Jean Luc exists, right? So, Jean Luc is both existing and non-existent?
